Men’s Rights Activists should police themselves

I’ve heard people say that men in the men’s rights movement should police themselves. I agree. I’ve done it a number of times. If you want to see what it looks like in action, I recommend spending some time reading this thread to see what it looks like in real life.

When we find one of our own kind being dishonest

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7 thoughts on “Men’s Rights Activists should police themselves

  1. Kerina says:

    That’s very nice to see. I especially liked it when a couple of people implied that the motives of the original poster might be suspect and were quickly shut down by those saying that the motives weren’t important, the facts were. I’m also glad to finally get a look at the AVfM site. I’ve been meaning to look at it for weeks but keep being distracted by other things.

    Oh, by the way, I did listen to the Warren Farrel audio book the other day on the bus ride to Toronto. I enjoyed it very much and loved his soft spoken rationality. He did not come across, in any way, as disliking women and so there was no bad taste in my mouth as I listened to him. People like him are what women need to hear. So many of the arguments of the MRA are just things most women have never heard before. In Toronto I tested some of these arguments on my mother, an aunt and a male cousin. They were all surprised by some of them but open to listening. The most shocking thing I encountered actually was from my male cousin. He listened to the arguments and didn’t disagree with any of them but at the end he said “It doesn’t matter. I’m a liberal and part of being a liberal is being a feminist, so I have to be a feminist”. This is not verbatim, but it is not a distortion or simplification either. he said exactly that and meant it. What a weird attitude.

    • Francis Roy says:

      I did listen to the Warren Farrel audio book the other day on the bus ride to Toronto. I enjoyed it very much and loved his soft spoken rationality. He did not come across, in any way, as disliking women and so there was no bad taste in my mouth as I listened to him. People like him are what women need to hear.

      I agree. He is a “safe” intro to anyone without a bone to chew on. He’s nice, he’s utterly fair, his research is excellent, his insights are pertinent, his presentation is clear and overall, he’s very erudite. What I like about him and try to emulate is his ability to handle all issue with a zen-like phlegmatism.

      He’s much better at the latter than I.

      He listened to the arguments and didn’t disagree with any of them but at the end he said “It doesn’t matter. I’m a liberal and part of being a liberal is being a feminist, so I have to be a feminist”.

      This is the kind of response that leaves me slack-jawed. I very occasionally run into such things, and it triggers an immediate and overwhelming sense of curiosity as to what the mechanics of his thought process might be. I admit that when confronted by such an attitude, I am literally at a loss on how to proceed. A response like that just sort of shuts my brain down for a while.

      • Kerina says:

        ” I admit that when confronted by such an attitude, I am literally at a loss on how to proceed.”

        That’s exactly how I felt. I was stunned. But then on further questioning I started to understand that he was virtually apolitical. He called himself a liberal because he felt comfortable voting a specific way. In his mid 20’s he was completely done with thinking about any of it. He calls himself a feminist but never thinks about it or acts on it in any way. It’s a default position. One that will not cause him any problems with women or men. If a woman asks, he can say he’s a feminist and if she’s political she will be mollified by this and not require any more from him. If she’s not political she is very unlikely to take him to task for such a standard position. Anyhow, my point is a guy like that is simply looking for easy, non-contentious beliefs to attach to himself so that he can have a semblance of a worldview with a minimum of energy and thought expended.

      • Francis Roy says:

        On one hand, I can totally understand that, on the other hand, it makes me sad. I can understand the “I just don’t want to be bothered” attitude, but it also looks a lot like giving up, or as response of learned helplessness. I don’t know the man so I really cannot impute any motives. It is an interesting story. I remember for a while that I was almost “aggressive” in my feminism, and always keen to bark out the right phrases at the right times. I didn’t really believe it in the sense of understanding it deeply and agreeing. Mostly, I agreed because I could not see past the bullshit, I was confused and took it for granted that in any disagreement that I was always wrong; I did not know how to think and it avoided the abuse of being interrogated and cross-examined as to why I didn’t speak up when that ever so subtle moment presented itself and my room mate or her friends were around.

  2. Tarnished says:

    I’m glad that someone else has finally called MWM out on his bullshit. When I first started looking into the MRA movement, his videos were the first I found. I truly enjoyed the ones where he interviews people…but then began to notice that his editing was less than honest and his commentary was deliberately provocative to say the least.

    For example, he has one segment where a woman, on the run from an attacker, throws herself through a window and is later seen stitching up a small wound on her arm. He claims that NO woman would be able to tolerate the pain of stitching herself up, and attributes it to false Hollywood strength. When I commented that I personally have cut myself to remove a deeply lodged piece of glass, and later stitched myself…he claimed I was lying.

    Another time, he had an episode where a female computer genius is called into some government facility to help with cracking a code or something similar. He says this is another example of women being cast where they’d NEVER be found in real life. In fact, he says the government in question might as well have called in a genius baby or genius potato, because that’s “just as likely”.

    He finally banned me from his channel when I called bullshit on his assertion that men had never used makeup or beauty products of any kind, and had only invented them so their wives could feel prettier. I pointed out that the ancient Egyptians and Babylonians had elaborate makeup for men and women of the ruling class, and that “fancy” garments like powdered wigs and high heels were, at least initially, primarily worn by men. I argued that makeup was not really made for a particular SEX, but rather a particular CLASS which then trickled down to the masses later on.

    In response, he erased my comments and banned both my accounts. This was in pretty poor taste, as quite a few others were in conversation with me, and they mostly assumed I was just being a bitch and not answering them.

    Being policed by the movement he is ostensibly trying to help…couldn’t have happened to a better person.

    • Francis Roy says:

      I’m going to have to review his work. There’s large body of it. I admit that for a while, I wasn’t sweeping everything with a fine-toothed comb. Maybe now that I’m more used to hearing the issues, it would be a good idea to review it under a more analytical light. I postpone judgment until I do so, however.

    • Kerina says:

      With friends like manwomanmyth the MRM doesn’t need enemies.

      Ideas like these, that women are less able to tolerate pain and that women are worse at logic, are exactly the sorts of unfounded claptrap that women had to deal with in the bad old days. Why on earth should the MRM protect espousers of the sort of nonsense that would likely cause many reasonable people to give feminism another look? Good on them if they call bullshit on him.

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