Why MGTOW?

Québec is a primarily French-speaking area, and in small towns such as the one that I live in, the few people who speak English are tourists or those who’ve travelled some. I was at a friend’s party last night as we stood around the fire, glassware in hand, a woman in my circle asked “Are you married?”, “Then you have a girlfriend?”, and “But why not?!”

My three female interlocutors seemed aghast at the notion that I wasn’t particularly interested in any sort of long-term relationship. “Ah, but if I were single, I could get you.”, said one. All three looked at each other with a face that said “Of course I could too!” Having had my third or fourth beer, I merely shrugged.

There must have been something in my expression or body language, because they all stopped, almost simultaneously. The first one asked “Are you gay?” No. “But you must have been damaged by a woman, had your heart broken, then!” responded the second. No. “Have you just separated or been divorced?” asked the first, again. “Some men are just bitter…” interjected the third, which oddly enough seemed to relieve all three.

I laughed at how it all seemed on cue, and simply said “No, not that either.” And again, the reaction was palpable. I’m not sure I have words for their reaction. It was like watching the confusion of someone grasping for a mirage and not understanding why their hands aren’t making contact with that which is right before their eyes.

The term “Men Going Their Own Way” translates very poorly into French (or at least I had little success at it) so I ended up saying something like “I make my own rules for life.” The response was that of uncertain curiosity facing a strange and unexplained phenomena, not sure if what is before them is good, neutral or a threat. The conversation went on for a good 20 to 30 minutes, and ended up with a clear general agreement among the three that I should simply trust women, because most are good, and that I should get married, or at least have a long-term girlfriend. The overwhelming accord among the three is that Ben, voyons donc! C’est naturel, quoi!  (“C’mon! It’s just natural.”) with the implication that my choice is, if not unnatural, then at least suspect. “Un vieux gars, c’as besoin d’une femme pour se compléter.” (A bachelor needs a woman in order to be complete.)

Today, liver still protesting, I watched the following video.

Recalling last night’s conversation and wishing that I’d had a more organized list of my own personal reasons to bring up on such occasions, I set pixel to screen.

 

I have certain fears.

I am MGTOW, because for men, marriage is state-backed, female-triggered time-bomb that could blow his life up.

I am MGTOW, because for men, having children is state-backed, female-triggered time-bomb that could blow his life up.

I am MGTOW because I have no reproductive rights and limited control over my fertility.

I am MGTOW because a simple accusation driven by spite and not fact, from an unfortunately chosen partner, could blow his life up.

I am MGTOW because I cannot trust that the police or the courts will treat me impartially.

 

I have certain annoyances

I am MGTOW because I’m tired of “man” being shorthand for “bogey man.”

I am MGTOW because every long-term relationship I’ve ever had seemed to be a series of burdens and obligations, more than an easy friendship–until we broke up, at which time my ex’s resumed being the person that originally drew me to them. (And why do certain women seem to value the length of a relationship over its quality?)

 

I have certain beliefs.

I am MGTOW because being born male does not indenture me to you.

I am MGTOW because it’s not my job to impress you.

I am MGTOW because it’s not my job to provide for you.

I am MGTOW because it’s not my job to protect you.

I am MGTOW because it’s not my job to make you happy. That’s your own responsiblity.

I am MGTOW because it’s not my duty to restructure my life and relationships to please you.

I am MGTOW because I don’t need to change for you. This is who I am, love me, or leave me.

I am MGTOW because it is fair to expect as much from you as you might expect of me.

I am MGTOW because your approval has no bearing on my choices.

I am MGTOW because I owe you no explanations for my life choices.

I am MGTOW because Move your own damn furniture–and leave mine alone! :)

 

I have certain attitudes.

I am MGTOW because I prefer healthy, mature, adult relationships–or none at all–of my choice and to my own tastes.

I am MGTOW because it’s win-win or no deal.

I am MGTOW because the only person that can own me, is me.

I am MGTOW because my life is my own, and I like it. ’nuff said.

 

Overall, it was a nice exchange; the part that most interested me was that the responses among my small group were almost identical. That, I imagine is a by-product of cultural indoctrination. None of us are immune to it.

 

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15 thoughts on “Why MGTOW?

  1. Tarnished says:

    Fantastic post, Francis. All of your reasons are solid ones.

    “The response was that of uncertain curiosity facing a strange and unexplained phenomena, not sure if what is before them is good, neutral or a threat.”

    This is the only part I’m unsure if I understand. Are you saying that none of these women have met a lifelong bachelor before? I can think of 4 right off the bat…and only 1 is a friend.

    • Francis Roy says:

      It took them a while to come up with the term “bachelor”, and it seems, once having found the correct label, were more at ease. What seemed to take them by surprise, it seems to me, was that it is a choice, that I can take or leave a relationship, but that I’m not governed by the notion of needing one.

      I, oddly enough, don’t know any “bachelors,” and by that I mean men that are willfully going their own way, in my personal life (‘net life excluded). I know divorced men, widowers, or young(er) men that are actively seeking and having little luck on a long string of dates, but I don’t know any guys that are quite happy on their own. Other than the much older men (the 70+ widowers) all seem to be in some form of looking for Ms. Right, even if they’re sleeping around.

    • Francis Roy says:

      As an aside, the term vieux gars actually translates to “old guy”, it is a very mildly perjorative term, perhaps akin to the term “spinster.”

      • Tarnished says:

        Interesting. I’m in the US so I don’t know Canada that well to say, but it sounds like it took them a number of tries/questions before coming up with the term “bachelor”. Are there not that many happily single men in your area, that even calling someone a bachelor or “old man” is not typical? What about happily single “spinsters” like me?

        It’s odd that you don’t know many/any bachelors yourself. Are you the only one in your immediate social circle? I wonder if staying single is more…popular…in the US? Not only do I have a decent sampling of customers who are voluntarily single, and the friend/acquaintances I mentioned before, but I can recall at least 1 female teacher and 2 male teachers in my schools who were 40+ years old and all 3 were pretty vocal about their enjoyment of the single life.

      • Francis Roy says:

        it sounds like it took them a number of tries/questions before coming up with the term “bachelor”.

        Yes, that would be an accurate assessment.

        Are there not that many happily single men in your area, that even calling someone a bachelor or “old man” is not typical?

        I’m sure that there must be, but the one driving factor is that they’re always “open” to new relationships and, at least from my point of view, seem to be actively looking for “that someone special”, whereas I while I accept that there’s the possiblility of meeting someone that might be worth hanging out with long-term, I’m not actively looking, and even were it the case, I woudn’t be shacking up with her.

        One good thing about Québec’s laws, though, is that common law marriages do not entitle the other to grab for the 50% (or more), unless there are children involved.

        As for women not in, or actively looking for a relationship, in my 40 something years of life, you are probably the only one I’ve met. Women, it has been my life experience, abhor being single for any amount of time, and will do what they can to avoid it. One common feature I’ve noticed is that women typically don’t break up with a man, stay single, then find another; they “straddle” relationships. They’ll find another guy, build a relationship with him and when she’s feels he’s the right one, dumps the current man. The exception to that is pretty much when she’s the one that gets dumped.

      • Tarnished says:

        Okay, that clarifies the situation a bit. If these women you were talking to don’t interact with “non-partner-seeking” bachelors, then I can see how someone such as yourself would be an oddity. I imagine then, that I would be viewed strangely as well? It sounded as though at least 1 of these women were married…I’ve learned that married women don’t care for single women that much (and feel uncomfortable or even threatened by one who is happy without a committed spouse).

        I’m sure I’ve mentioned this before, but you and I have very similar views on “mate selection”. I do not require one, but if a relationship that looks like it would be mutually beneficial presents itself I will pursue it. Hence my current 7 year FwB which provides both of us with friendship and worry-free sex, and the other potential FwB who I’m meeting next week who is a nice sounding virgin male my age. I get to experience dating again after a good number of years “off market” and I’ll leave it up to you to figure out it’s beneficial to him… ;)

      • Francis Roy says:

        It sounded as though at least 1 of these women were married…

        They were all in some form of relationship. I admit, I find it more comfortable, in many ways to deal with people in relationships–when they aren’t trying to hook me up with someone that can’t get a date on her own, that is. A lot of the social and unconscious pressures that Caprizchka mentioned go away.

      • Tarnished says:

        I am also more comfortable when I know the person I’m talking to is in some kind of relationship, though I’ll reiterate some of what Caprizchka said and mention how difficult it is to remain good friends with guys after they have girlfriends/are married. A lot of the friendships I’ve had since I was 14-15 are either dissolved or incredibly different now…Apparently men aren’t allowed to have vagina-owning friends, even if they’ve known each other for over a decade, if they are married. It sucks losing such great friends over something I can’t change (my body).

        Actually, this whole “aw, you’re a single man let me introduce you to my single friend” is kind of the direct opposite of the behavior I talk about in my post here https://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/androphobia/

        It’s like a switch in some women’s brains: Scared of male strangers to the point of acting sexist and irrational VS meeting a single male and assuming he’d make a good mate for someone. I’d love to get your take on this…

      • Tarnished says:

        Oh, and both my current/ongoing FwB and the potential/new FwB already know about each other. This is not a straddle, this is an addition (one that FwB #1 suggested himself), and each partner understands the situation. Honesty and communication are key.

    • Francis Roy says:

      Oh, and how is your survey article coming along?

      • Tarnished says:

        Excellent! I have “stopped” taking in new data (though people are entirely free to continue commenting), and have a small spreadsheet filled out for the simple bits like age, ethnicity, single/married/divorced statuses, etc. It’s going through the more writing intensive parts that I’m taking my time with. Obviously anyone can read the stories on my blog, and it’s all good stuff although it doesn’t take my personal emails into account. But I want to condense all the information I’ve been given so that it is easy to tell what the most common reasons for MGTOW are.

      • Francis Roy says:

        I’ve been looking forward to reading it, much like one anticipates a good movie. :)

  2. caprizchka says:

    I support your choice.

    I am in a relationship–an usual and politically incorrect one–that requires neither social nor state sanction, largely because quite deliberately I chose not to reproduce.

    I think that is the heart of the matter for most women–they need some sort of social acceptance and base of operations more than men do and besides the only way for a woman to maintain relationships with most heterosexual women is to appear is if one is not apt to “steal their man”. Since I’m largely alienated from the world in which I live–having lived abroad in near isolation for many years–I couldn’t care less about navigating the complex, bizarre, and hypocritical social rules of my geographically proximate peers. Most of those rules appear to be ideologically, politically, economically, and hierarchically driven. Naturally these rules come with deep subconscious hypnotic triggers which cue avoidance reflexes in terms of avoiding the pain and fear of uncertainty or marginalization from the herd while simultaneously triggering curiosity.

    Therefore, my own social reticence perversely attracts questions from curious women. Those questions are similar to those of this article. Some of them of course are interested in “stealing my man”. “Go for it,” I urge. As for *their* men? I have no interest whatsoever. Any man who is “owned” by a woman holds no interest for me beyond human concern for his welfare.

    Do I regret not having children, a mortgage, “security,” etc.? Not in the least. A few of my curiosity seekers privately tell me that they envy my freedom and courage. I’m sworn to secrecy. Most, however, I believe, hide their fear, anger, and envy behind a mask of pity. Poor me. ;)

    • Francis Roy says:

      I couldn’t care less about navigating the complex, bizarre, and hypocritical social rules of my geographically proximate peers. Most of those rules appear to be ideologically, politically, economically, and hierarchically driven. Naturally these rules come with deep subconscious hypnotic triggers which cue avoidance reflexes in terms of avoiding the pain and fear of uncertainty or marginalization from the herd while simultaneously triggering curiosity.

      That’s very well-put. It is a point that I should add to my list. I suppose a more succinct yet less descriptive way to stating it is that dating games are annoying.

      I never put my best foot forward when meeting people, because I simply can’t live up to it in the long run. It’s false advertising, and I’m not a product to sell, I’m a human that one might or might not want to get to know better, as he is (and as is she). On the other side, I’ve seen women go all out to be super pretty, sexy and sweet only to have them turn into something else the moment they feel secure in the relationship.

      these rules come with deep subconscious hypnotic triggers which cue avoidance reflexes in terms of avoiding the pain and fear of uncertainty or marginalization from the her

      This is the part that I see as being applicable to all people, and probably the worst. It isn’t that people necessarily choose to be deceptive, but are pinballed from one unconscious drive to the other, with very little control of their paddles.

      It seems difficult for people to just be who they are–which is what we’d want to know in a partner, it seems.

  3. Tarnished says:

    Francis, I have the first set of results for my MGTOW Survey up for perusal now. Thanks for your responses…you and the other 21 mgtows were what made it a reality. :)

    https://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/mgtow-survey-results-part-1-demographics/

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