What MGTOW really means…

There is much discussion lately of “What MGTOW really means.” I think it’s a silly argument.

This is where I stand on the matter.

I am simply very careful of who I enmesh by life with, and pay particular attention to not putting myself in a legally and financially vulnerable position.

To me, it seems that many MGTOW are in fact resentful and angry people who are essentially saying “Fuck you!” to all women as proxies for those that harmed them, and not acting as “liberated men.”

While I watch many MGTOW videos, I must admit that there’s a certain kind of hard-line that I just don’t buy, one that is usually come by via pain. I acknowledge that women have many similarities, due both to biology and upbringing, but I’m not willing to make the same kind of leaps of logic that many do.

I only use MGTOW as a convenient label to say that I refuse the role of protector and provider, that I do not accept the social convention to give up my wealth, possessions, or dignity to enjoy a relationship of any kind with a woman. I do not accept that I owe obéissance or duty to another human for the mere sake that they are born female, and I, a male.

I will not argue “What MGTOW really means” any more that I would argue what happy, or wealthy really means. It is merely a convenient label, one that I am ready to drop in a heart-beat, without needing to change my approach to life.

For all of those who are insistent on creating dogma, or ideology, feel free, the label does not bind me, any more that societal expectations that I fulfill certain roles do.

It is an irony that choosing to be truly free of unchosen labels and expectations also means giving up the expectations of those who argue over a label’s meaning.

 

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14 thoughts on “What MGTOW really means…

  1. Tarnished says:

    “To me, it seems that many MGTOW are in fact resentful and angry people who are essentially saying “Fuck you!” to all women as proxies for those that harmed them, and not acting as “liberated men.”
    -I must admit, the fact that some MGTOWs truly believe AWALT is just strange to me…it’s as harmful to gender relations as feminists who truly believe that all men are potential rapists. Neither can possibly be true statistically, and acknowledging that some percentage of men/women are “like that” doesn’t mean that everyone who shares those chromosomes are. Now, I will agree that marriage and live-in relations can be dangerous for men in Western society, so if that means not engaging in such arrangements, I’ll support that decision.

    ” I do not accept that I owe obéissance or duty to another human for the mere sake that they are born female, and I, a male.”
    -Of course not. That is stupid and chivalrous.

    • Francis Roy says:

      Tarn said: “I must admit, the fact that some MGTOWs truly believe AWALT is just strange to me”

      And there are people who believe that Feminism is a Jewish conspiracy, and that “the” Patriachy is to be taken more seriously than “The Illuminati Theory.”

      People are very often black-and-white thinkers. It is my experience that real life and that truth lives in the grey and nuanced areas.

      • Francis – Okay, show me a girl that would happily die for her boyfriend, work full-time (or more) until she retired so he could stay at home and watch TV all day, fix shit for him, shower him with gifts and whenever he felt the slightest bit uncomfortable go out of her way to make him feel better. That number is next to zero, and that’s not even a NAWALT.

        Billions of men do this stuff for women everyday. Billions. How many women do this for men? Maybe you can find a few odd cases here or there, and what would that matter?

        This isn’t a conspiracy theory, people arguing NAWALT are people splitting hairs. You can take whatever comfort you’d like in the vanishing small (if existent) NAWALTs of the world, and tell everyone else who can do the math that they’re like conspiracy theorists if it makes you feel better — because I’m pretty sure that’s exactly why people cling to NAWALT. Believing in NAWALTs is like believing in God. It’s wish thinking. It’s magical thinking. It’s reasoning on how you’d like the world to be rather than dealing with reality.

        I’ll say the same thing to you that I would say to theists, if God exists, all you need to do is show me the evidence and I’ll change my mind. If NAWALTs exist, all you need to do is show men the evidence and I’ll change my mind.

        If it’s true, it should be easy.

      • Francis Roy says:

        What does any of this have to do with my post? I’m expressing my opinion that fighting over what the word MGTOW really means is a trivial pursuit. I do what I do, and if someone wants to come a vamp up that how I choose to live is wrong because it’s not ideologically pure, then I’ll simply dump the word and keep on living as I do.

      • Tarnished says:

        “Okay, show me a girl that would happily die for her boyfriend, work full-time (or more) until she retired so he could stay at home and watch TV all day, fix shit for him, shower him with gifts and whenever he felt the slightest bit uncomfortable go out of her way to make him feel better.”
        -He is not, and never will be, my boyfriend but I would gladly die for my FwB/lover if it meant he would live. Both of us work full-time and we don’t live together, but neither of us would find pleasure in watching TV all day. We help each other fix things, move furniture, pick each other up from the train station/airport, run small errands if the other person needs it. That’s what you do in a friendship…or at least one where you’re not dealing with a leech or fair-weather “friend”. I buy him far more gifts than he does me, but then again I have more disposable income, so it makes sense. I pay for the meal, he pays the tip, and this works out fine given our respective financial situations. As for comforting, I’ve driven the hour to his home to give him a backrub or sit with him when he’s ill, I slip little candies and notes into his coat pockets to enjoy later in the day, and he often calls me late at night to vent about his job.

        ” That number is next to zero, and that’s not even a NAWALT.”
        -Correct. That is someone who is a good friend or lover.

        ” Billions of men do this stuff for women everyday. Billions. How many women do this for men? Maybe you can find a few odd cases here or there, and what would that matter?”
        -It doesn’t matter, mostly because it happens on such an incredibly small scale. Not only that, but the current political climate means that a NAWALT could easily become an AWALT if she so chooses to take advantage of the situation. Thus why MGTOW is the safest path for a man.

        ” You can take whatever comfort you’d like in the vanishing small (if existent) NAWALTs of the world, and tell everyone else who can do the math that they’re like conspiracy theorists if it makes you feel better — because I’m pretty sure that’s exactly why people cling to NAWALT.”
        -As far as I can tell, people cling to NAWALT because it is statistically sound. I am hard pressed to think of anything that is true for 100% of a population. If we take women as the example, you might say they all have vaginas…but females have been born without them, so this is not true. You might say they all have XX chromosomes…but there are genetic abnormalities that mean women can also have XO, XXY, or XX in some cells but XY in others. Perhaps you’ll say that only men have significant amounts of facial hair…but what of bearded women, or those with hypertricosis? Even the amount of estrogen produced by a female body can vary, and if a female fetus is exposed to various prenatal androgens, she can be born with either masculinized genitals (CAH) or a masculinized brain (as is currently being studied via gender dysphoric people like myself). So if AWALT can’t even be said for the female body, then it is safe to conclude the same is true for the personality.

        ” If NAWALTs exist, all you need to do is show men the evidence and I’ll change my mind.”
        -Change your mind about what? Going MGTOW? That would be foolish.
        There is a remote chance you can win the lottery with the first ticket you buy. It’s still a safer bet to get an education or apprenticeship, then a job in order to make a living. There’s a possibility I would never have contracted rubella without any medical precautions, but I’m still glad my mother got me vaccinated. You may drive the same car for 15 years and never get a flat tire, but are you really going to not bother keeping a spare and a jack just in case?
        The existence of NAWALTs in no way precludes the necessity of men being cautious and keeping their wits about them. To say otherwise is a great disservice.

      • Tarnished says:

        Agreed. People aren’t robots that are hardwired to behave in X way during Y situation. Our culture, personal upbringing, beliefs, other life experiences, and (to a smaller part) genetics all play a factor in our reactions. As nobody has the same combination thereof, the truth is almost necessarily grey.

    • AWALT is true just like all female black widows will eat their male suitors (unless they’re already full). When you argue against AWALT what you’re arguing against millions of years of evolution instilling instincts for hypergamy, hypoagency and male disposability. Yes, all women are like that, even karen straughan.

      I believe some there are honest AWALTs (or at least some that at more honest than others). These are women that have recognized these instincts in themselves and are willing to admit to them and deal with them rationally, but they’re still there.

      “it’s as harmful to gender relations as feminists who truly believe that all men are potential rapists.”

      No, actually it’s not. Being an AWALT is not a crime (in fact, it’s encouraged) and there is no legal punishment for a “false AWALT allegation.” Your career and life won’t be ruined if a man tells the police you’re an AWALT.

      Tarnished Sophia, this is why really wish you would leave the MGTOW sphere, for good. You’re a barnacle on MGTOW that needs to be scraped off.

      • Francis Roy says:

        AWALT is true just like all female black widows will eat their male suitors (unless they’re already full). When you argue against AWALT what you’re arguing against millions of years of evolution instilling instincts for hypergamy, hypoagency and male disposability.

        You’ve overlooked something: humans are not spiders. We humans have the ability to override our instincts. Don’t believe me? Then you don’t believe MGTOW is possible. If pair bonding and sexual reproduction is irresistibly instinctive, then you must, absolutely, with no choice in the matter pair bond and mate. If you can choose to not do so, what makes you think that women can’t also make a choice that is counter-instinctual. Whether you choose to engage in the social ritual of marriage or not is a separate issue.

        Second, hypoagency is not instinctual, but cultural.

      • Tarnished says:

        “Yes, all women are like that, even karen straughan.”
        -I wouldn’t know. Haven’t met her.

        “These are women that have recognized these instincts in themselves and are willing to admit to them and deal with them rationally, but they’re still there.”
        -Which is a good thing. People of both sexes should recognize their faults and attempt to better themselves. Likewise, I have faults, but can honestly say that hypergamous behavior or hypoagency are not included among them.

        “No, actually it’s not. Being an AWALT is not a crime (in fact, it’s encouraged) and there is no legal punishment for a “false AWALT allegation.””
        -If you reread my statement, I said that *believing* X is as harmful to gender relations is as harmful as *believing* Y. I made no mention of how either one could be used in a court of law, or the ramifications thereof. Anyone with half a working brain knows that a false rape allegation is infinitely worse than a ‘false AWALT claim’. Does this even exist?

        “Tarnished Sophia, this is why really wish you would leave the MGTOW sphere, for good. You’re a barnacle on MGTOW that needs to be scraped off.”
        -You are free to wish whatever you desire. However, I will continue supporting MGTOWs, letting men I meet know what a poor choice marriage is for the Western man, and writing/speaking up about men’s rights. Nobody, yourself included, has to listen to anything I say…If they think I’m stupid, that’s their right. If they think I’m worth talking to, that’s also their right. But to stop supporting men going their own way? Not going to happen.

        I will thank you for keeping your comment to me civil this time, though. It is appreciated, even if you may not believe that it is.

      • Tarnished says:

        Wheybrew, you never explained why you believe I’m a “barnacle on MGTOW”. Care to? It’s just such an odd description.

  2. Gratis Ptaka says:

    Just what the hell drives a man to become a MGHOW? Day after day, I see one man after the other flop upon our message boards professing their undying naiveté and ignorance. Every single day, thousands of men wake up to the fact that their illusions and enchantments regarding just about everything were not only wrong, but insanely wrong. If you put it in a global perspective, many tens of thousands of men wake up to these realities every, single, horrid day. Then, they stand up, walk to their bathrooms and look themselves in the mirror. What do they see? They see reality. Each of us repeats this process every day.

    MGTOW see the ruination that women bestow upon men. They see the hypocrisy and double standards that women seem to thrive upon. They see the white knights tripping over one another for a sniff. They see the brainwashing and shaming with which the government and corporate realms purposely poison good men. Money, money, pussy. Money. Pussy.

    I’m so fortunate to have cohabited, in my mind, with the likes of you MGTOW. Here I am, in the same writing space, with some of the most wonderful minds to have ever existed (ManWithAPlan being my personal, rat bastard favorite). I am amongst the most lucky to have ever lived.

    We’re supposed to count our blessings, right? Each and every one of you represents the reason I get out of bed every day (nocturnal emissions excluded). We may not always see eye to eye, but dang, we certainly nail the important points. Thank you, my fellow MGTOW.

    When I get out of bed and look in the mirror, I see change. I see a world devoid of the gynocracy, the patriarchy and of feminism. I see a world in which men are not viewed as disposable ATMs. I see a world in which men wake up and live the carefree lives that women have traditionally known. Pretty dumb, right? Imagine a man waking up and thinking he can live the carefree life of a woman? Imagine a man expecting to have life served up on a silver platter. Imagine men thinking they have reproductive rights. Imagine men saying “fuck you” to the prison guard putting him away for non-payment under his indentured servitude man-clause. Imagine a man saying to his deeply hated X wife, “I’d sooner drown in a pot of boiling shit than pay you alimony so that you can fuck my X best friend.”

    Remember when people thought the earth was flat? They’re saying the same thing about MGTOW. What are they saying? “What a bunch of losers!” “They can’t get laid!” “Whatever bad things you have to say that will force men to live on bended knee, say it about those MGTOW!”

    Why do women AND MEN denigrate MGTOW? You know why. It serves women to shame men. It servers men to shame men. It serves women to denigrate all male thoughts that don’t specifically revolve around women. It serves men to shame men that don’t conform. If you want someone to act and behave in a certain way, and they refuse to do so, how might you respond? In the most denigrating way, right? That’s feminism and anti-feminism, folks. That’s White Knightery.

    MGTOW represent women losing pussy sniffing, white knight enforced, feminist enhanced, man destroying privilege. It’s going to get very, very ugly.

    Imagine waking up one day, and the only qualification for your happiness is, you ruled every aspect of your life the day before. Imagine a world in which you define for yourself, without gynocentric or white knight approval, what being a man means. Imagine a world in which you thrive without the negative, soul destroying influences of the gynocracy and white knightery. This is why I love MGTOW.

    • Tarnished says:

      Holy crap…This is frickin spectacular.
      If I may say so, this is one of the best “speeches” I’ve ever had the pleasure of reading. I applaud you, sir.

      • Gratis Ptaka says:

        I’ve always had a big soft spot for you, Tarnished. I talk you up to others when they mention you. We’ve written to one another in the past. I’ve been banned on a bunch of sites since then, so you probably don’t recognize me. I have “anger management” issues I need to address (apparently). Thanks much for your comment. Really good to see your post.

      • Tarnished says:

        Well, you’re always welcome at my place. I don’t see any unjustified frustrations in your writing.

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