MGTOW vs MRAs: Open your eyes.


A commenter in a thread said _”I sympathize with the MRM insofar as they fight for mens rights. I just think that they will not get very far.”_

Yet, all evidence is to the contrary. We have more men speaking out now than we ever have had before. The result is that we have more people acting on it.

_”And the reason are people like Cenk.”_

Not at all. People like Cenk are merely what the marketing industry would call “a late adopter.” Given critical mass, he, and those who hold his points of view will also change. This is how ideas get propagated in a very large mass of ideas. Changing public consciousness takes time, first because humans need time to change their ideas and second, because there are so many humans.

_”Most women are not willing to give men equal rights. (And this includes especially reproductive rights!)”_

This is very dense with assumptions. First, rights are not “given,” they are accepted then respected, then acted upon.  When we speak of rights, such as reproductive rights, for example, what we’re speaking of is legislation that leads to the enactment and enforcement of policy. There is a process to these things. The order is such: academic introduction and debate, public acceptance, political acceptance, legislation and encoding into policy, followed up the encoding and enforcement of policy at the local level (in the bureaucracy, then down to cops and social workers, for example.)

Once all of this is in play, there’s a number of years where the specifics have to be worked out in court to refine the issues via challenges and decisions.

_”And a large number of men are mens worst enemy. Cenk is the best example for that.”_

Cenk is not an enemy, he’s someone who doesn’t accept the argument, whether his arguments are good or bad (I think they’re atrocious.) That he is male or female has no bearing on the matter.

Where men _are_ “enemies” to each other is in day-by-day activities where men piss on each other, or fail to stand up for each other in a context. In a conversation at a party, at a job interview, by the cop who just goes with the flow or in a comment thread where people scream out “pussy beggar!”

MGTOW is not “the” solution, it is part of the solution. MGTOW simply remove support from the current system: they don’t feed the enemy, they deny the enemy resources. MRAs are the warriors on the field, sword and shield in hand against those who would harm us. MGTOW is more passive, but is valuable. A hungry, unsheltered opponent is a weaker opponent which makes the job easier for the warriors in the field.

It is time to stop thinking of each other as opposing armies and to think of ourselves as mutually supporting specialists.

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2 thoughts on “MGTOW vs MRAs: Open your eyes.

  1. The MRM will not address (or change) hypergamy. The MRM will not change hypoagency (all FeMRAs tend to use it very well, in fact). The MRM might raise some awareness about male disposability, but most people still don’t care.

    The MRM also will not address (or change) traditionalism. In fact, if anything, the MRM seems to have it’s heart set more than ever on returning to traditionalism. That is certain to fail.

    I’m not saying the MRM is useless, and I still hold out hope for it, but it’s being hijacked by sex-positive tradcons (aka the Honeybadgers). Men are stupid enough to fall for bullshit from women like Mercedes Carrera. There’s a market of men now who want to beat off, but would like to do it to anti-feminist women, and Mercedes Carrera has figured this out and cornered the market. Most MRAs are dumb enough to believe that this is good.

    • Francis Roy says:

      The MRM will not address (or change) hypergamy.

      I’ve heard men’s rights activists address it many times. I have. I also recognize it for what it is: a proclivity, not an irrefutable force of nature that slavishly drags unwilling women out of perfectly satisfactory relationships. If anything, the problem is not hypergamy itself, but the poor character who choose to indulge in the instinct.

      The MRM will not change hypoagency (all FeMRAs tend to use it very well, in fact).

      I’ve also addressed this many times, and I habitually call women out on it, and in my daily life tell women that if they aren’t willing to act as adults, that I’ll have nothing to do with them. I’m part of the MRM.

      The MRM might raise some awareness about male disposability, but most people still don’t care.

      Give it time. We’re talking about marketing here. Some campaigns win, others don’t. Nothing stops me from trying when my last approach fails.

      The MRM also will not address (or change) traditionalism.

      That isn’t its job. It’s job is to promote equivalent rights for men and to change negative cultural attitudes towards men and boys.

      In fact, if anything, the MRM seems to have it’s heart set more than ever on returning to traditionalism.

      Evidence, please. By the way, are you, like so many others, conflating one organization for the whole of the MRM? I hope not. I’m part of the MRM and I’m not AVFM, or on its team.

      That is certain to fail.

      That’s an argument from lack of knowledge. “I don’t know how it can work, so it can’t.”

      I’d like to point something out: If you read the above, you’ve framed your arguments as a conflict, as a fight against something. I view what I’m doing as an attempt to build something. And I expect it to take at least three generations.

      I’m not saying the MRM is useless, and I still hold out hope for it, but it’s being hijacked by sex-positive tradcons (aka the Honeybadgers).

      Again, evidence, please.

      Men are stupid enough to fall for bullshit from women like Mercedes Carrera. There’s a market of men now who want to beat off, but would like to do it to anti-feminist women, and Mercedes Carrera has figured this out and cornered the market.

      Funny! :)

      I don’t know much about her. I’ve heard her name. I might have heard her speak, but from what I vaguely remember, her thoughts weren’t of note enough for me to retain.

      Most MRAs are dumb enough to believe that this is good.

      Again with the generalizations Richard. I would encourage you to look at such elements not as a homogeneous lump, but a collection of individuals. One can look at a complex system, such as a truck, or a radio as “one thing” or, one can see that it is a collection of interacting and interrelating parts. I choose the latter, because it allows me to eschew the black-and-white perspective. A truck is made of many elements that turn, to do their job. But the springs and seats and lights don’t.

      The MRM, humanity, even, is a systemic flow of ideas, actions and energy in constantly in motion, not one static thing.

      The trick is to know what we want to create, to learn how to move the parts so that it produces the results that we want. What I want, is a world where men and women are treated fairly (that includes me!) so that we can move on and get the best of life, and maybe, one day, get off of this rock and seed the stars.

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